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Focuses on the military responce to 9/11.
 
Posted by: Scottjpw on the 25th 2006f January 2006 | Comments: (42) | 
paul span...
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Posted by: paul span... on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 07:46 |
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bollocks
it's not moving pictures
and linkin park are quite correct... NO ONE IS LISTENING |
sam
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Posted by: sam on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 08:29 |
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| yeh thts true no one does listen and right now i may be british living in the uk but the us president sux the reason y is coz he only cares about himself no1 else just himself |
jasper
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Posted by: jasper on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 11:10 |
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| Yeah, you ARE British living in the UK, so I don't believe you have the right to pass judgement on anything about America. |
super_ja.. 
Posts: 739 |
Posted by: super_jay on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 13:28 |
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| BULLSHIT. |
seagal
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Posted by: seagal on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 13:41 |
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| song was a bit gay! |
JAB_CT
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Posted by: JAB_CT on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 14:33 |
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Im from the US and I have to disagree with jasper, I think the UK, has every right to judge their opinions on Bush and this country.
Being our closest ally, we had better care what they think.
Im hoping that after Bush, the next president will do what it takes to try and fix US/World relations.
The current administration has made me go from Independant, to Democrat. |
Funboy
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Posted by: Funboy on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 16:06 |
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| Well said Jab |
pigg
Posts: 127 |
Posted by: pigg on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 16:40 |
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| I am british and would like to say that all of those pics were just americans, please don't forget that there are many british, australian and many other nations troops over thewre too. I think that those guys are true heroes but they are fighting a pointless war...Bushs' war. Have any of you guys heard of the Christian crusades? It was when the Christians travelled the world killing all non Christians. I am a christian but feel Bush is on his own crusade which is wrong. We had the IRA bombing the fuck out of us for years (financed by the americans by the way) but we didnt invade ireland and kill them all. Get real guys you are supposed to live in a free country but you are fed a lot of garbage by the media and can't even fly to cuba!! The war is over OIL and Bushs' determination to finish off what his daddy couldn't. Blair is as bad... a puppet. If we want a war, find Bin Laden and knock the shit out of him and his supporters, because we have only stirred up a hornets nest in Iraq, how many more of our troops need to die to avenge the couple of thousand dreadful deaths of 9-11?? |
Nemesis80
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Posted by: Nemesis80 on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 21:01 |
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the troops arent avenging much, benny is in afghan not iraq: have they got lost in the way?  |
spencer
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Posted by: spencer on the 25th 2006f Jan @ 22:28 |
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| this type of video makes it easy to forget that Iraq had nothing to do with 911. whatever though, i guess they all look alike. |
jummy
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Posted by: jummy on the 26th 2006f Jan @ 00:31 |
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spencer: who told you iraq had anything to do with 911?
pigg: no one who supports this war has forgotten the british, australians and troops from other countries in the coalition who have sacrificed alongside the americans and iraqis to secure iraq.
i don't think you can say that blair has been dragged kicking and screaming into confrontation with iraq. certainly he was in accord with bill clinton who had made regime change in iraq an official policy. nor would you wan't to.
i think we're all familiar with the christian crusades. they were projects of the british, french and prussian empires. i don't think they're relevant. i think that if you have a problem with christians, and have to dip back 700 years to justify them, then its really just your problem.
if you have a problem with theocracy, you kinda have to wonder why you're not bothered by the preceding nine centuries of turkish and islamic conquest of and aggression against europe; moreso contemporary theocracies.
the "americans," if you're suggesting the u.s. government or even the 99.999% of americans who aren't communists from boston and beverly, did not fund the ira. nor have we killed "all" iraqis or afghanis. we did "go in," as british security forces did from time to time in ireland.
something about not having to pay the government for the privlege of watching the state-sponsored news agency must make u.s. information media less free by some calculus, but i haven't been able to figure out how that works out.
bush 41 wasn't prevented from finnishing the job by anything more or less that the prescriptions of the un at the time. the extent of the mission was indeed shortsighted, but bush 41 was in expliscit agreement with it. it would be better to say that bush finnished off what his father should've.
oil is of course the silliest claim as a motivation for the war. the oilfields were returned to the interim government before even soveirenty, i believe. iraq's oil is national property, rather than the property of deed-holders, and this is beneficial to the coalition as it's essential for weening iraq from foreign aid. oil companies may get oil from the world's second largest oil reserves (iraq) the way they get it from the world's first largest oil reserves (saudi), which is by purchasing it. a post war iraq has little effect on the availibility of iraqi oil for purchase, because u.s. companies were buying most of iraq's output before the war through oil-for-food.
if you read today's news, you'd know that that "hornets nest," as a whole representing less than .1% of the iraqi population, is turning against the al qaeda fighters in their midst. once al qaeda is expelled and security forces (now counting 170,000, more than the number of u.s. troops in iraq) are logistically seated the remaining al sunna insurgents can be brought to heel by the iraqi defenders of a free iraq.
the war on terror isn't inspired merely by the 9-11 attacks, but also the 93 wtc attack, kohbar towers, flight 800, and dozens of other attacks by al qaeda and similar groups. since then, notably with the stikes in london, milan, bali and elsewhere, the jihadists have given us no incentive to stop fighting them.
so, though i understand that no one likes war, i don't think your view of it has any merit, and it seems motivated by prejudices against bush that follow no facts or context.
jab ct: i don't understand why the current administration provoked you to move to the democrats, but i'm not worried about that. what i wanted to say was that you were right to scold jasper. what he said was crude and stupid. |
SenOne
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Posted by: SenOne on the 26th 2006f Jan @ 00:48 |
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| Jummy couldn't have said it better myself. |
jummy
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Posted by: jummy on the 26th 2006f Jan @ 00:53 |
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| thx |
spencer
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Posted by: spencer on the 26th 2006f Jan @ 01:53 |
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spencer: who told you iraq had anything to do with 911?
I think the video clearly tried to make it seem as though Iraq was our response to 911. Not to mention how the administration endlessly tried to create an association as we were on our way to war. |
pigg
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Posted by: pigg on the 26th 2006f Jan @ 04:32 |
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| An excellent arguemnt Jummy,you have researched the topic well. However, I am inclined to dissagree with you on this one. (The idiot)Blair as you correctly stated did not go into the war kicking and screaming into the war, he has to concur with Bush and so does Ausralia, New Zealand and canada under part of the 1947 ukusa echelon surveillance agreement. My main questions on the matter are; Why was Saddam a "clear threat to the security of our nation"? Where are the WMD? Is Iran next? Why are we allowed to have WMD and Neuclear capabilities when others are not?..look at it from their point of view, all we are doing is creating more hatred towards our coalition. I agree that Saddam is a tyrant and a dreadful man and think that he should be punnished in the most serious manner availiable, but I feel that his tyranical regime and opression of his people was not the reason for the war, if it was then why not say so in the first place, rather than trying to scare us into war by telling us that iraq has neuclear capabilities to strike Britain within 45 mins? Also if Bush would wind his neck in for a few moments and perhaps read and sighn the Kyoto agreement then perhaps we may still have a world in the future that was worth all of the bloodshed. Do not get me wrong , I am not a tree hugger or a commie, but just someone who thinks that it is awful to see all of these poor soldiers loose their lives on a war waged on lies. |
iomecai
Posts: 1 |
Posted by: iomecai on the 26th 2006f Jan @ 13:35 |
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This is just stupid, non informed people talking out of thier ass.
Think about this.
After they flew thier planes in OUR buildings and killed OUR people; did you honestlly think that that was the end of thier attack on us and OUR friends? NO.
In war there is no hit you once and run away. They were going to keep it coming at us. So we brought the war to them.
Al-queda hit us; and at the time Abu- Musab Al Zakawi ( leader of Al- Queda ) was in IRAQ.
And could Any war on terror be taken seriouslly without the fall of Iraq? Really? No.
Freedom is worth dying for.
America has lost 2.5k service men and women.
The radical Muslims have lost way over 35,000.
Not to mention the 2.5k loss is AFTER LIBERATING 2 RADICAL MUSLIM NATIONS. We lost more men in pearl harbor.
there is a reason we aren't listening. Because all you are talking is Shizznit.  |
pigg
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Posted by: pigg on the 26th 2006f Jan @ 17:21 |
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| Well thankyou for informing us iomecai, however this just proves that you americans can't even decide between yourselves just why you went to war. Some of you say it is nothing to do with 9-11 and some say that it was because of 9-11, what is the governments official stance on the matter? I told you what our government said, but I feel that yours just kept on changing their mind over it. |
spencer
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Posted by: spencer on the 26th 2006f Jan @ 21:28 |
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| Pigg, you're right. As an American, I can tell you that the initial reasons for going to war were that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, and that he had operational ties to Al Qaeda. As we learned that their were no WMD (which we thought they had because we armed them with WMD during the Reagan administration to fight Iran), and that there were no operational ties, the reason now became that we were fighting to free the opressed people. In any event, if WMD or the opression of innocent people were really our concern, we'd have gone to war with North Korea. |
SenOne
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Posted by: SenOne on the 26th 2006f Jan @ 23:51 |
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| I am an american and would like you guys to look at a video I found on google the other day. its about an hour long about all the inconsistancy with the 9/11. From flight 93, to planes dissaperring to controled demolition of the towers. I know I am sparking a fire storm but this needs to be seen. go to video.google.com then serch for loose change 2nd Edition. It will make you think. Only post to my message if you semi have a clue about the real picture and aren't clouded by the propaganda that runs our world. |
spencer
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Posted by: spencer on the 27th 2006f Jan @ 02:55 |
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| senone... i watched that video a couple days ago, and found it incredibly interesting. i didnt allude to anything portrayed in that video because it's an extreme left wing video, and conveying the ideas that that video conveys (regardless of how true they are) only hurts the image of people with my mindset. |
PC = Crap
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Posted by: PC = Crap on the 27th 2006f Jan @ 03:13 |
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"Only post to my message if you semi have a clue about the real picture and aren't clouded by the propaganda that runs our world."
Whose to say youre view isnt skewed by youre "theories "
As an aussie im proud of our boys over there serving our country with honour....BUT , i dont agree with the reasons they were sent or the fact that we were blatantly lied too before we went off to war .
We seriously need to look at WHY .
why do they hate us ?
why do they feel strapping a bomb to themselves and killing innocent ppl is the only solution ?
Why , as 1st world nations do we think dropping ridiculous amounts of munitions on them is the only solution?
WITH THE TROOPS , FOR THE TROOPS |
pigg
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Posted by: pigg on the 27th 2006f Jan @ 03:16 |
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| thanks guys, thought I was on my own there! |
SenOne
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Posted by: SenOne on the 27th 2006f Jan @ 04:04 |
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| Spenc please explain how it would hurt those with your mindset. I am not knocking you just trying to understand. |
Tyrfingr
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Posted by: Tyrfingr on the 27th 2006f Jan @ 22:04 |
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Too few are asking how the whole muslim terrorism began to begin with, it's like it just started with 9/11 for most people..
The ties to the terrorism can be traced back to the old Cloak and dagger days in the cold war, the russians for instance invaded afghanistan, the U.S supported the resistance by arming them... The arab countries were quite used as pawns by the Russian/U.S goverments to conduct war indirectly with each other. The russians took up sides with Iraq, so the U.S took sides with Iran. Russians sided with North vietnam, the U.S with the South.. It has always been Russia v.s U.S in the background making wars, while the parts that has done the actual fighting have been left out in the cold in the aftermath. The U.S just like the Russians have never held their promises to the people they claimed to help. So in time after being used as a pawn in means to fight a political enemy to the U.S (Or to the russian) in a gigantic arms race during the cold war. Hatred sprung up, and so did the terrorism. As the only means these people have to fight back, and/or take revenge for being assfucked and lied to.
Russians also have their share of muslim terrorism just like the U.S, and for the same reasons, with some alterations. Also the U.S and Russian goverment officaly allied themselves against the growing terrorism shortly after 9/11. Terrorism as we call it, isn't anything new, it's been going on for a long long time. People have just taken notice of it today, since 9/11 was too big not too take notice of. |
SopieMun..
Posts: 490 |
Posted by: SopieMunky on the 28th 2006f Jan @ 01:30 |
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I'm really impressed/proud that everyone is behaving so well in this thread. Thanks for not being idiots about this, guys. 
Scott, have you ever considered making a forum for this site? I bet it would get a lot of intelligent debate like this video's comments.
And it'd be fun, too. |
scottjpw
Posts: 777 |
Posted by: scottjpw on the 28th 2006f Jan @ 05:13 |
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| Ye I can create one . I think it might work well also. I'll have a look into it as I will have to find moderators to keep it all under control. I've never run a forum before but I can't imagine it being difficult, just time consuming having to read all the replies. I could give people like yourself moderator privileges incase you come across spammers etc.... |
Funboy
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Posted by: Funboy on the 28th 2006f Jan @ 05:45 |
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That was a tremendous bit of debate lads. It make such a pleasent change from the usual "Americans are wankers" and "Iraquis are gay".
As to the forum, I love this site because it is not bound by the usual net chat laws and allows people so say what they think however illinformed it may be. |
spencer
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Posted by: spencer on the 28th 2006f Jan @ 19:29 |
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| it hurts our image because if you say "bush knocked down the towers" people can immediately stop listening and write you off as an extreme conspiracy theorist.. it gives them an excuse not to listen to you. plus i dont know for a fact that the video is completely truthful, and even if it is, i'd like to see an argument against it so i could weigh the likelihood of it being true. im sure you'd agree with me that not everything put together on the internet is done with a lot of journalistic integrity or any kind of accountability for the claims being made. |
Dutch Clan
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Posted by: Dutch Clan on the 29th 2006f Jan @ 22:14 |
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| Bush knocked down the towers |
Nicholas
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Posted by: Nicholas on the 29th 2006f Jan @ 22:57 |
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Hi guys,
Many of you think they are right and the others are wrong, just based on what they see in the media. The arguments you guys have come from what you hear on radio, see on tv, etc. So is CNN more right than BBC and is skynews better than French, Italian, Spanish TV? Just try to read articles from non US magazines, watch foreign news and youll realise that in almost evry country in the world, wether free or under strong propaganda, Bush administration is portrayed as a bunch of liars. Oil was of course the main concern. You disagree?? just try to listen to the world out there. There are people outside US who also have journalists, free expression, etc. Youll just know Bush is wrong by realising the whole world out there calls him a liar. there is strong evidence. But to realise that, you ll have to open your mind and look elsewhere, which is, i know, very difficult for many americans. (e.g:why the hell do you call it soccer, the whole planet calls it football!)
I know my English is not so good and ill be insulted for that, but look: If you guys read that far, you made the first step, you started to open your mind on something different from your biased media.
So go ahead: while youre on the internet just look for newspapers websites and compare how war is being dealt by different journalists.
I guess after that, you ll change your mind. |
Tyrfingr
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Posted by: Tyrfingr on the 29th 2006f Jan @ 23:17 |
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| Personally i dont trust the media at all, i just go by the bits and pieces that are undeniable facts... The rest is all crap and hearsay, some peoples theories, things taken out of context and the usual drivel to sell better and help whatever media station to be the most popular amongst people. Looking past the media is the first step to personal enlightment. |
spencer
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Posted by: spencer on the 29th 2006f Jan @ 23:18 |
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| Nicholas, although I agree that oil is definitely among the greed-related reasons for the war, just because most of the world thinks bush is a liar definitely does not mean it's true. I think a good goal would be to do what you said, to look at news from other countries but to also compare it to the news we get and to look at it all objectively. Then try to decide who's more full of shit. |
Nicholas
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Posted by: Nicholas on the 29th 2006f Jan @ 23:35 |
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thats exactly what i meant. Thx.
If i call Bush a liar, its because i watched many TVnews from different countries, with different political opinions, and most of them agreed on the fact there was no WMD, and therefore the whole reason why america and others went to iraq was based on a lie. Im not saying Iraq was heaven on earth before, but then, lets go there for a good reason and tell people why we go there, honestly.
And if the whole world says Bush is a liar, that does not mean he is one. But knowing what is true and what is not is a long and painful process. Many philosophers have worked on it.
I'll just agree with the whole world. They might technically be liars just like I think Bush is. But o well. At the end of the day, you have to believe someone, or something. Plurality of information sources is a good enough reason for me to think my opinion is not too biased. |
spencer
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Posted by: spencer on the 30th 2006f Jan @ 00:18 |
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| Hmmm... I totally see what you're saying, but to say something like "I'll just agree with the whole world." is a dangerous way of thinking. When you let other people do your thinking for you, you get results like Nazi Germany. |
SenOne
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Posted by: SenOne on the 31st 2006f Jan @ 12:29 |
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| Spencer I see what you mean. I just wish there was a way of exposing the truth. I just find it really funny that of the high jackers at least 9 have been found alive and safe in their home countries. bet bush made sure that never found it's way into american news. |
pigg
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Posted by: pigg on the 01st 2006f Feb @ 15:56 |
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| I watched the video, very interesting there is a similar one on kontraband.com if you search animations for pentagon conspiracy you will find it. It makes you think. Who will ever know the real reasons for any of these "attacks" or the war though? Certainatly, all that we can do is speculate or belive the media, which does the most harm though? |
lars0ne
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Posted by: lars0ne on the 10th 2006f Feb @ 19:11 |
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| media is full of shit. BBC FOX CBS is just propaganda! look at "alyasira?" if u want to see the truth. |
Floyd
Posts: 3 |
Posted by: Floyd on the 14th 2006f Apr @ 18:56 |
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| America is going to end this world very soon if noone stops her. This fight for demokrati is fake. I'm from Bosnia, & I know what kind of "improvment" are they giveing to devasteded countrys. |
RobYDMfa..
Posts: 2374 |
Posted by: RobYDMfan on the 26th 2006f Jun @ 16:31 |
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yummy what a nice point of view witch has been told to us by FOX (aka: shut the hell up TV) CNN BBC and the rest of them
Tell me is Iraq better off without saddam hmm no because the war has killed more people then saddam could well maybe not dream of but that's a fact including americans contractors and soldiers
look at Catrina that would open the eyes of most of the world apparently a life of a chicken in Cuba is more then a Americans its a shame and lets all guess together who's to blame for 9/11 (if you still believe the Osama Crap that's up to you)
well lets called these bunch of cronies the elite and that will sum up most of your troubles you don't need to go out and do anything just enlist in the army go off and have some gay fun in Iraq or afghanistan and if your lucky and a pro at it you could actually get away with it yummy that sounds like fun
if any one is flaming: your not answering yummy's questions that's because they are already clear if you watch this video or grab fahrenheit 9/11 and see it from bush is stand point watch both (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-777
2696530684663669&q=Loose+Change+2nd+Editi
on)
in the elites eyes Afghanistan = Pipeline: (Oil in Turkmenistan (tyrant regime) to Afghanistan (karzai) then to sea true Pakistan (Musharraf a "good" dictator))
Iraq = get a puppet state in there and use it to your benefit (give contracts to your friends) its a big country that now is under the control of bush & co that's bags of money
if you watched the movie and still believe the crap and you still hate Muslims sooooo much that you would not let them fly or kill them at sight then read this opinion from the other side that is the moderate Muslims and see if you can understand them I'm now not referring to yummy I'm in a hurry so i apologize in advance o and here is that website "website http://www.world-crisis.com/analysis_comments
/437_0_15_0_C37/"
now that you understand a "exotic" point of view
lets have some short facts:
USA supported Saddam Husein
USA supported Osama bin Laden
USA invited the Taliban to the us to offer them a deal on the pipeline which they refused (the Taliban refused)
who owns the pipeline contract well Unical and is the pipeline singed now... yes and in fact that was the first thing that karzai did
and a last point would like to make is that if the American soldiers leave Iraq it doesn't mean that us administration and control over this well green zone government one thing we know as a fact is that the us made this government and it forces and builds its hands that's a fact its just like west/east Germany
both claiming that they were 100% German controlled but in real was little more then a cold war front line for the us and the USSR
again if I'm hectic that's coz I'm in a hurry
PS : I'm not Muslim or Arab or Democrat or anti all wars or Republican I'm just a American and i do believe in god (just in case the foxy style flames come by)
 cheers Brits Americans wont forget you !*
* i hope |
Gildariu..
Posts: 5 |
Posted by: Gildarius on the 07th 2006f Dec @ 13:21 |
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I believe that it's VERY important to debate about the different news sources we perceive.
I just hate when I watch some news channels and see interviews or debates where the people who ae interviewed carries different opinions about: religion, terrorist attacks, cultural values etc. are too often hushed down, and not allowed to speak by the news anchors- just because they bring a different outlook to an event (like 9/11) than the common one accepted by the people!
In order to find truth in news, we need to dig down deeper than the all-accepted news, see different sources and ask ourselves questions. 
Cheers- Jon |
lstrex
Posts: 6102 |
Posted by: lstrex on the 31st 2007f Aug @ 06:59 |
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| "i think we're all familiar with the christian crusades. they were projects of the british, french and prussian empires. i don't think they're relevant." that was like 500 years before the British Empire it was England and europe not Britain Britain is the whole island |
Draupner
Posts: 2691 |
Posted by: Draupner on the 17th 2007f Sep @ 20:37 |
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Keep thinking you are so great, America. Just go on.. But one day, you will be shocked when you see how many allies your enemies actually have got.
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